Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Body stuff, the TMI edition

OK, so there’s something that I keep running into in all corners of the blogosphere and the media, and it’s annoying me.

Personal grooming issues. Why are these any of anyone else’s business? I mean OK, if we’re talking about people who do not bathe and are thus offensive to the sensitive nasal passages of those who have to be around them then I’m right with you. But when it comes to stuff that’s purely cosmetic? I’m just not seeing why this is or should be a matter in which public opinion is relevant. Especially not public opinion that’s based on either traditional gender roles or the desire to defy them.

So here’s my story. I am generally not a fan of body hair, on either sex. I have never dated a hairy man and never will. I have been shaving my legs and armpits since I was about 11 and have no intention of stopping any time soon. Even really hairy arms turn me off. This does not mean that I feel any need to interfere in other people’s grooming habits – see post below. Unless I’m sleeping with them it’s really none of my business.

However, despite generally falling into the anti-body-hair camp the common assumption that women will remove all of their pubic hair annoys me. And don’t get me wrong – I have done so, and will probably continue to do so sometimes. I started trimming the sides as an adolescent because I practically lived in the swimming pool and didn’t much care for the sight of hair protruding from swimsuit. I started shaving everything off in my mid twenties because I was living in California and it was really hot one summer. I did it on a whim, liked the way it felt and decided to keep doing it.

I always hated the way it looked, though. I hate the way it looks in porn too – I feel the same way I do looking at bald heads. Like, something is missing and I find it aesthetically displeasing. It’s not even the political argument about it making women look childlike with me, because honestly, an adult woman with huge breast implants and a shaved groin does not look like a child. She does however look a little odd to me, and not in a way that I like.

I’ve never liked the way it looks on me either. It makes me feel sort of bald and oddly unsexy. Which interestingly enough is Mr. C’s take too – feels cool, looks weird. He shaves most of his public hair off too, mostly for tactile reasons and to feel less sweaty when it’s hot. So nobody in my immediate vicinity is exerting pressure in either direction. And politically I’m totally neutral on this issue – I don’t think it’s a political issue at all, but an aesthetic one.

And aesthetically I don’t like the way I look fully shaved. So I’m letting some if it grow back. I seem to be leaning towards the neat little triangle look, because landing strips make me think of Hitler mustaches and that’s just not sexy at all. Or the stripes that they paint on the highway – also not sexy. The way I feel with the little triangle of dark hair though? Totally sexy. Which generally leads to better sex, which is a good thing.

Note that I have no opinion one way or another about what other women do with their pubic hair unless I’m sleeping with them. It’s just not relevant to my life in any way. I am not critiquing other women’s choices or suggesting that they change what they do.

How the hell did this ever become a politicized issue in the first place? And why are we letting it stay that way? If I see one more discussion about this on a feminist website I’m going to start throwing things at the screen. And men who feel the need to opine about the pubic topiaries of women they don’t even know and what they feel would be best for them to do…STFU. Nobody cares, she’s not sleeping with you anyway, your opinion is irrelevant.

Why can’t issues of personal aesthetics be just that? Why the need to impose ones own preferences on the world at large? Can an aesthetic preference not be just an aesthetic preference?



araliya said...

We-ell, so long as the single most important function of women is to appear palatable to what they are told heterosexual men want, it's going to be an issue. I'm all for women reclaiming their own sexuality, but while 'society' pays lip service to the idea, it sets up rules and regulations regarding how exactly this sexuality is to be reclaimed (ie, not at all). For women, the model seems to be porn stars, and currently, porn actresses strip their bits.

UneFemmePlusCourageuse said...

Hmmm...I remember back when the naked pictures of that girl from High School Musical leaked onto the Internet, there were several people on one of the gossip blogs I read castigating her for not shaving her pubic hair, as if it was the moral imperative of every attractive young female celebrity to do so. Then again, the comments were as racist (the girl is multiethnic, and one of her ethnicities is Filipina, if I remember correctly, and people were talking about her "working in a Manila brothel") as they were sexist, so what can you really expect?

thene said...

How the hell did this ever become a politicized issue in the first place? And why are we letting it stay that way?

It wasn't 'us' who made it a politicised issue; men did that. If 'we' all promise to stop mentioning grooming stuff on message boards and blogs, are men going to stop hectoring women about it, judging them for it? More to the point, are women going to stop making judgements about it - not political more-feminist-than-thou ones, but omg-bad-social-signal-you-FAIL-at-being -CLASSY ones? *maintains that female homosociality is more vicious wrt grooming/presenting as female than male heterosexuality is* Feminists didn't make this shit political - they just called it out.

Arwen said...

I've never really understood the discussion, although I have heard it. Unlike fat, makeup, heels, or highlights, what I don't get is how my pubes can be hectored and judged. I generally keep my pubes in my pants. Yeah, there's a bit of pressure in Cosmo not to be all hairy-pubed at the beach, but I don't read Cosmo, and whatever. Who's going to be looking at my crotch that hard?

As for doctors and partners, anyone with a pube hector could sing it right up my rectum, because they'd be dumped.

Oh, hah! I crack me up. That's such a disgusting pun.

Cassandra Says said...

Um, I don't want to be rude, but the idea that the average woman views porn stars in an aspirational manner is kind of ludicrous. Models and actresses and pop stars, yes. Porn stars, not so much.

And thene, my point is that it's a personal grooming choice and none of anyone's business - not random men, not other women, and not feminists either.

Octogalore said...

I could not agree more. I don't think what porn stars do affects women in any significant way.

Vic's Secret and Madison Ave are the common aspirational ideals and all we know about their pubic hair is we can't see it poking out of their bathing suit bottoms. And that's a neatness thing, not a feminist thing. We'd have the same "ick" reaction to a guy's public hair poking out -- which can happen with a low-cut pair of jeans.

And yeah, I don't see how feminists have any more say in "calling it out" than random guys or "you're not classy" women. Nobody knows what others' motivations are. It could be the landing strip is more comfortable, it could be that it makes an individual woman feel sexier. Who cares?

In a different context, Araliya's point makes sense. Women are expected to uphold a different appearance standard compared to men, and to the extent someone's choices are all about pleasing men in such a way that it takes a significnant personal toll, that's an issue.

But still, not one that's anyone else's responsibility to police. Those issues will exist as long as women don't have equal financial leverage and are forced to compensate via a more decorative role. That's why battering at individual women by cultfems misses the point. Women as rational actors will and should do what's necessary to thrive. The key issue is to tweak the thrive mechanism so that women have more leverage and do not need to please men to thrive.

In the case of pubic hair, my fairly wide (I'll spare you the specifics) sample indicates that men come in all varieties in terms of preferences. Just as many appear to be turned off by the brazilian as into it. So women's choices in this area are not only nobody else's business, but not likely to be influenced by anything other than personal prefs.

Miss Thrillz said...

"because landing strips make me think of Hitler mustaches and that’s just not sexy at all."

*falls over laughing*

Oh how much ILU...

Cassandra Says said...

Octo - Agreed completely about the difference in appearance standards and that it hurts. I think where I'm not agreeing with other people, and am agreeing with you, is in terms of what the solution to that is. I don't really think that endlessly policing each other about things related to the appearance standards is going to change much. I do think that getting more economic power would change a lot, particularly women's need to be seen as decorative. If you're a CEO or the President no one is in any position to make demands about how you trim the hedges, you know?

My own experience matches yours in terms of men's preferences being as varied as women's, but then again you and I are both over 30. What say you, younger commenters? I get the distinct impression that there's been a major cultural shift in terms of expectations there.

Cassandra Says said...

Miss Thrillz - I'm not kidding, dude. The first time I saw a landing strip in real life I kept thinking of that Charlie Chaplin movie in which he played a take-off of Hitler. It was quite the mood-killer.

Dw3t-Hthr said...

Honestly, I suspect the reason that it gets kicked around is the question of meaning.

There's a lot of human interaction that's done in body-language and presentation subtext, and that means that just about anything can get read as talking in code, even when it isn't.

Take the body hair thing. Some people take shaving to mean 'I am doing the socially appropriate grooming for my culture'. Some people take not shaving to mean 'I don't give a damn what you think of my grooming habits' or 'I am ideologically opposed to certain social expectations'.

And those of us who shave because we don't care for hair, or because of the effects on skin sensitivity, or who like a particular look, or who don't shave because of not wanting to take the effort, liking the fuzz, or not liking cutting ourselves up with razors (I'm in categories 1 and 3 there) become invisible; people keep trying to figure out what message we're attempting to project.

And it's not really possible to say "Look, people, stop looking for messages there!" because some people do use codes in that area. And human tendencies are to err on the side of significant meaning; better to mistake the rock for a lion than the lion for a rock.

Zan said...

The message my hairy legs are sending is this: I'm just too damned tired to bother with this shit and my gf really doesn't care about it either. Also, I have an illness that makes shaving a bad idea for me -- I tend to cut myself and then it takes MONTHS to heal and do you know how annoying it is running around with unhealed cuts on your legs?? Plus, I can have bad reactions to those hair removal creams. Not always, but it's kinda a crap shoot. So....hairy legs for me! Yay! (And if you think cuts that won't heal on your LEGS are bad, consider what it feels like in other areas. Which is really too bad, because the feeling of my underwear on bare skin is neat. Oh well.)

But really, I don't understand what the big fuss is about. If a woman feels compelled to shave due to social factors -- well, yes, that is an issue. But making the assumption that that's why she's doing it is another issue.

Octogalore said...

CS -- yeah, age may be a factor here. To an extent this is somewhat aligned with the power thing. Young women, in the main, are less likely to have found compensatory factors that outweigh the decorativeness requirement.

So the peer pressure is more of a factor. (One of the things I did agree with about Levy's "Female Chauvinist Pigs" was the increasing showiness pressures on today's teens). Per my Spitzer post, I think this places additional responsibility on parents/teachers/caregivers of girls to instill a confidence that physical acquiesence isn't the key path to the win.

You're right -- a powerful woman, whether she's a president or a confident teacher or businesswoman or artist -- can say FY to someone who wants to dictate hairstyle. If today's young guys are getting more obnoxious about this, the girs need guidance as to how to get to FY.

Because despite your and (especially) my advanced age, there's one commonality between our teenage male boyfriends and those of today, and that's that if they're horny, couture ain't gonna stand in the way.

Amber said...

My own experience matches yours in terms of men's preferences being as varied as women's, but then again you and I are both over 30. What say you, younger commenters? I get the distinct impression that there's been a major cultural shift in terms of expectations there.

I'm under 30... just barely. I'm 28.

But, I have absolutely noticed and felt pressure to be "not hairy." It *is* a real thing. However, what I've found is that not only does it put pressure on women and make many of us feel badly when we don't measure up, it also doesn't reflect what a lot of men like either. I've heard countless guys complain about how almost all women in porn are totally bare, or have a hint of a landing strip. If men view porn more than women, porn seems to not only be presenting a very limited range of what's "acceptable" for women, but for men too.

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